Full Episode Transcript

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:01.172)

All right. Hello and welcome back to the and both podcasts. I am here today with Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel and she is here to talk about some, some stuff that we haven't actually talked about on the podcast yet, which I'm really excited about. Um, but before we get started, welcome and thank you for being here.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (00:21.47)

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (00:24.5)

Yeah, oh, I'm, I am so excited. I read your bio again before I started the whole recording thing. It was like, yes, please. Um, so how about we start with you introducing yourself and, um, what you do and I'll end those parts and pieces and go.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (00:40.842)

Yeah, so a little bit about me as I'm a licensed psychologist and sex therapist. I really started in the area of trauma and in working with trauma, really loved working with couples and in doing all of that work, realized we don't do a lot in learning about sex and eroticism and intimacy. And so that has just kind of all blended together. And so this beautiful place where I'm out of my life, where I have a private practice and still work in all of those areas, but most recently expanded into doing retreats and workshops that I just, you know, I say like important conversations just don't happen in therapy. They can happen anywhere and they should be happening everywhere. And so I think that's become a little bit of my mission is to bring these conversations out of the therapy room and into your life. So.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:29.568)

I love that. I love the idea of like, it's one of those things where people just sort of, they like put it in a little bubble and it exists in its own little space. But like, there's always got to be, I feel like there always has to be like, all of the parameters have to be lined up in order to like approach this bubble of conversation. Just with that, but literally everything else in the world is like, you know, like, like Kate Middleton has surgery because she has cancer and like,

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:56.843)

Yes!

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:08.012)

The world is like, that is my business, right? But like, it's like, like they wanna know all about that, but you're like, what about like, what about your own stuff? Like, how about you unpack a little bit of your own stuff and like leave her alone. I mean, I'm just.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (02:10.526)

Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I think even being a psychologist, that when I do work, it's kind of funny where I realized when I first stepped out into doing retreats that, oh, I'm like everybody's mistress.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:36.857)

No. Ha ha

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (02:44.666)

My clients don't tell their friends that they're seeing me. They come to my office. They let me take care of them and hold them. And then they put me in this teeny tiny little box on the back of their shelf. And that's not all of my clients, but there are some clients that were like, nobody knows that I'm seeing you. And I was like, wow, like, what does that say about where we're at in our lives and how comfortable we feel when we're going through something? And this is both erotically or non-erotically that-

Dr. Ashley Blackington (02:50.306)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (03:12.946)

It feels like I couldn't say that I'm doing this work, that I couldn't have these conversations. And yeah, it's pretty mind blowing.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (03:24.024)

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think, too, like so much of that. I believe that so much of that comes from like our experience throughout our life, right? Like we don't just sort of have this idea that's fully formed. It's like where we come from and how the pieces go. Like I have I remember when my oldest was. Oh, I don't know, five, maybe four. I don't know. And she started asking because I was pregnant with my I must have been pregnant with my third.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (03:47.48)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (03:54.088)

And she was like, let's talk about how this all occurred. There was no, the stork never happened in my house or anything like that. But I remember she asked questions and I was just sort of like, well, just answer the questions. And all of those pieces are very multi-layered and there's emotional dimensions and physical dimensions and all of those pieces and how they all weave together. Right.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (04:10.455)

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:23.732)

And so I'm like, well, she just wants to know what is happening physically, which leads to me having a conversation, the first conversation with my daughter about sex in the cereal aisle at the grocery store. And there's like, there's like people walking by and I'm like, you know, using all anatomically correct terms and all of this stuff. And they're like, Oh my God, I'm like, this is how we all got here. Like, I mean, various whatever methods and technologies and all of that stuff. But like, relatively speaking, a plus b equals baby.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (04:26.06)

Yeah. Ha ha!

Dr. Ashley Blackington (04:53.644)

Right, like that's how it has to work.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (04:53.742)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's funny because like one of the things I talk about is like, people will get red if they hear the word vulva. But I'm like, if I say the word arm, you don't think twice about it. You're just like, oh, OK. You know, if I say leg and I'm like telling you about the different tendons and ligaments and types of bones that like go into your leg, it's like, oh, OK. But if we start talking about sex or genitals, then it's like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:05.229)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (05:23.022)

And it's like, and so much of that is like, those feelings would not exist. If you got used to saying them, if you were able to like adequately describe, you know, what are these, what are these body parts, what they do, they do. And then more importantly, like, how are you in control of them? That they do not control you, that you should feel empowered. Right. And I, and I think that that's a part that is often missing is that.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (05:34.762)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (05:52.518)

If I acknowledge any of this, then I will be like a slave or like, you know, beholden to these body parts versus like when I'm not dysregulated and I'm not anxious and I'm not afraid and I'm not, you know, ignorant, like where I'm not lacking knowledge, I can make really informed decisions. And Absolutely. Right.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:15.876)

Mm-hmm. And that's what we want. Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (06:22.334)

Like, I mean, everywhere we go, we're like, slow down, don't rush, think it through. And that's the only place where we don't think it through. We're like, nope, let's not talk about it. Let's just like figure it out when it comes to it. And you know, it'll be fine. And it's like, how many times have we made impulsive decisions and it's been fine? Like, really, like, let's think about that. Like how often does that happen? Not much, right? And to...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:34.511)

Okay.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:40.138)

Really?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:46.01)

Right.

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (06:50.75)

Make informed decisions, you have to be informed.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (06:55.244)

And that's too, like having this like othering experience of one part of yourself is this weird like, it's like that weird like black box, like not being able to talk about those things and not being able to address those things, but also not feeling like you have somebody that you can reach out to and talk about that, which I'm sure like people are like, like I imagine that people that find you and begin to work with you are people that have felt like, that all exists in its own little echo chamber. And now there's someone who's like got a flashlight, right? Who's like, no, like let's open this up a little, let's put a little light on it and let's have these conversations, throw some information in there and take like the shame maybe, take the secrecy, take the vulnerability out of it and put in education, acknowledgement, acceptance, like all of those pieces to bring that into being a part of you.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (07:57.866)

Yeah, so I think what happens is when you don't have information, you can't feel grounded. I don't know if you've gone into a class. Think about math. If I went into a quantum physics course, I would be sitting here sweating bullets because I don't know what is all of this. And I feel really overwhelmed. Because it's so far outside of like my wheelhouse in my range, you know, that that's often how we approach sex and eroticism. And then on top of that is any of the stigma, shame, misinformation we have been given, right? So if I've been taught to either dissociate from my body and any urges or feelings that I have, that I don't explore, I don't figure out what they mean to me, then that also means I don't figure out my boundaries, right? I don't figure out my desires.

And if I have a lot of shame, then when I do feel those, then I'm also going through this process of fighting with myself that this is wrong, that this is not okay. And I think the stark contrast then is like, I get into a relationship where I get married, depending on what my values were growing up, and I am now wanting to or needing to engage in this space, right, in the erotic playhouse. And I'm dissociating, I'm dysregulated, I'm disconnected, I can't find my voice, I don't know how to communicate boundaries or consent or pleasure or desire. And then really confused like why this is such either a mediocre, unmemorable or a very

Dr. Ashley Blackington (09:49.929)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (09:55.502)

having conversations like these, not going through that process. So when clients come into my office, it really starts with normalizing this as part of empowerment, that talking about sex does not make you go out and have sex. Talking about sex makes you informed and empowered to make better decisions in relation to your erotic life, that you start to learn how to create dynamic consent with a partner where it's not just this binary yes or no, but what do I want today in the here and now? That maybe yesterday I wanted you to fill me up and kiss on my neck, and then tomorrow, I just want you to cuddle me. And rather than me saying it has to be all or nothing, I can really get into these nuanced spaces that allow me to stay connected to myself and connected to my partner and connected to my voice. That's what I do. Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (10:57.689)

And I love that. I think that's amazing because it is something that they talk about when you talk about mismatch in expectations leading to issues, leading to problems, leading to a whole big tornado of stuff when it comes to relationships and how things change. But if you have the ability to communicate on that level about anything and being able to connect with each other on whatever it is, and that is definitely part of the menu of things to talk about, then you're gonna move into a space where as things change and as people change and as you grow over time, that it still meets both needs or wants.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (11:43.986)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, even like expectations, it's very rare that anybody is exactly the same, right? And so, right? But I think oftentimes we expect that, right? When it comes to like sex, or it comes to some other places, like, it's almost like we're looking for like, a clone of ourselves, or that's what we're told we're going to find versus like, no, absolutely, that's not going to be the case. But what you are looking for is collaboration and integration.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (11:50.048)

Oh god, I hope not.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (12:14.418)

And the only way to do that is to really truly know yourself, right? And then being willing and able to listen to your partner. And so when I'm coming into a space, like, you know, with, within, whether it's a new partner, whether it's the same partner is that one, things evolve over time. So things that I liked, you know, again, yesterday or before I was a parent or when I was in my twenties, what, before I had, you know, a serious illness are not going to be the things that I may like after those moments, right? And same with my partner. You know, an example I might give right outside of sex would be like careers. When I am by myself, I could have all the dreams of what I wanna do for work, where I wanna live, what I wanna be, what my trajectory is. And all of that has to evolve and shift and adapt when I meet somebody that I wanna build a life with.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (12:47.192)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (13:11.79)

Right? And if I'm going to like really bring this person into this space, it's no longer about just what I wanna do for my job, even if I'm casually dating, right? So maybe like I could work 80 hours a week. Well, suddenly now I wanna spend time with a person that's like, oh wait, maybe I don't wanna work 80 hours a week, maybe I wanna work 40 or, oh, you know what? I typically was working this shift and now I wanna try to like work this shift so we can hang out here. That I start to adjust and adapt what my expectations were to what our expectations need to be. And I think that goes, that same model has to be put into the erotic, right? Where what I thought I wanted maybe for myself is not going to be the exact same. And the more that I know about myself, the more that I can say, oh, these are the things that are really truly important core values of mine. And here's where I want to adapt or adjust, right?

Just like that job is, I may not wanna leave my career filled, but I definitely may change the trajectory of what I was going to do before I got into a serious relationship. And we can't do that if we aren't informed.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (14:24.232)

Mm hmm. And I think too, like, that's the important like, it's so fundamental is to know exactly who you are, in turn in as many ways as possible and how that your yeses and your nos, your the hard ones and then being able to weave those things through. And I think that that's something that happens so often where you find this, you find these conflict pieces or pockets because there is that like unexplored hard yeses and hard nos and how do they line up together? And so how does that, I mean, cause we talk about this as a motherhood podcast, how do you find, cause I think that this happens a lot, especially when you move into parenthood, I think like it's a whole different level, it's a whole different layer of the onion when you put that on top of it. 

And so how does that, how do you find that as a thing, or common themes that you see, because you do work with couples, and I'm assuming that you work with couples maybe before and after, or after they become parents and there's conflict that arises. So what are some of the things that maybe you see, I guess, as themes?

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (15:40.142)

So I think there's different stages of parenthood. And so I think the first one is when you become a new mother, right? I think there are a couple of things that happen depending on how you come into motherhood, whether you are adopting using a surrogate or you yourself go through your pregnancy. And one is like reconnecting to your body, that so many things shift and change. Things that again, that you used to love, you may not love. One joke I make is like, you know, I remember a couple of those in that, you know, used to use the word like mommy. And that was a cute pet name until she actually became mommy. And it was like, oh, that doesn't feel good anymore. That is no longer sexy.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:26.764)

haha

Dr. Ashley Blackington (16:35.556)

Look, that's my name 99% of the day. Thank you, no thank you.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (16:39.115)

Right? So the name I may want to be called now, you know, and I'll use my own name is like, I want to be called Jasmine. I do not want to be called mommy in this space. And it really is like that big of a spectrum from like, things that turned me on and things I found desirable, but all the way to like, the way my body has changed, right and falling back in love with, you know, noticing I may have new curves or things that used to be comfortable or no longer comfortable or things that weren't comfortable or not comfortable. And so I think that's the process where I start with mothers is like, how have you evolved through that stage from before you became a mother to after you became a mother? You know, and really like, who are you erotically? Like, who do you want to be erotically? That, I think another challenge that could happen sometimes is that sort of unintentionally, you just get like fused with the role of mother and forgetting that like I am mother and I am Jasminae. And so there is mother and there's a whole exploration of like, how do I want to be as a mother and who do I want to be as a mother? How do I feel empowered in that identity? But then this other identity that has to be separate from that because that is where the erotic lives. That is where sensuality and desire live is this place where it's like, I'm not this nurturing caretaker, but like I am stepping into my own space and fully indulging in my needs, my wants, my pleasures. And that I think is really important to realize like those still have to exist separately, right? There's not too much that is sexy or erotic about nurturing. It's beautiful, right? It's breathtaking, but it's not sexy.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:41.066)

No.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (18:51.934)

And so that's where I often start. And I think there's this other part of potentially digging into work of like, what does sex mean to you? How do you define it? What's its purpose? What's its function? Did you ever really enjoy it just for yourself or was it always a means to end? This is how I date. This is how I get married. This is how I have a child.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (18:55.47)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (19:20.958)

this is what I'm supposed to do, I'm obligated to do this to make my partner, you know, satisfied or was there a part of like, this is for me. And if that doesn't exist, it's even, to me, that becomes even more important because you're giving so much of yourself now that maybe before was like, okay, like I don't have to really think about this being for me.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (19:32.046)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (19:48.31)

because I'm focused on all these other things, but I have these other places where I can come back and fulfill my needs. But now I'm literally every other part of my life is going to others. If I'm going to work, it's going to my employer or my business. If it's my relationship, it's going to my partner. It's going to my children. So now I really need to have spaces where it's like, what is for me? What is solely for my pleasure, my satisfaction?

like for me to feel satiated. And I would say a lot of, I think women in general, but especially mothers really struggle with.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (20:30.856)

Yes, on the inside, because I'm trying to keep a quiet, calm recording space, but on the inside there are fireworks going off in my head of like, oh my God, yes. And it's because this is the thing that like, this is why I started this podcast is like, you are a whole person. 

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (20:40.706)

Hehehe. I love it!

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:00.352)

You are also a mom. But so much of what the message that gets like waterboarded at us is that once you become a mom, all the things in service of motherhood are supposed to have this trickle down effect in the rest of your life, right? Like you have, you know, you're like the kids are growing and developing and they're healthy and all that stuff. Don't you feel good about yourself? And you're like, well, in order to get them to be there, I'm the one pouring the buckets out.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (21:12.302)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (21:19.732)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (21:29.476)

And then, you know, is this is the, the motherhood in how it all looks on the outside. This is an attractive thing. And so therefore that should be fulfilling that need that you have in order for someone to find you attractive, in order for you to like be a desirable person. And you're like, listen, like me serving up fruit snacks is not hot. Like me serving up fruit snacks is trying to keep people alive.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (21:47.946)

Yeah, it's not. Yeah. And it also isn't, you know, like, there's it feels a certain place, but it doesn't feel every place. Right. Like, and I think that's the part when we think about the whole is like, you have these different aspects of your identity, right? There's my financial identity, my spiritual identity, my professional identity, right, my identity as a friend, my identity as a lover, my identity as a daughter. all of those different identities come together to make a whole. So to now say, here's this new identity, the identity of mother, and that should fill in all the rest of those gaps. It's like, that just doesn't, that just doesn't happen. It can't happen. It like, there are some parts that just literally are oppositional, right? Like something like sex and eroticism in some ways is very selfish because it's about me, right? It's about me being the priority, which is completely opposite of being a mother which is about you, which is about me being selfless. And so if that identity is supposed to cover all of these identities when it comes to being fulfilled, you're already losing.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (23:01.312)

Yeah, I mean, there's not enough, right? Like it's like you have all these buckets, but you just don't have enough tokens to put in all the buckets. And... Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (23:03.467)

Right. And some of the tokens are shaped differently. Like, you cannot go in it. Like, even if you had enough, like it can't go in the bucket. Because it's like, that just is not that shape does not fit.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (23:20.524)

That shape is not meant for that bucket. Yeah, I just, I love that idea of, you know, just sort of helping people to understand that like the message of, you know, this all-consuming role does not mean that it is an all-fulfilling role or fulfilling all role.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (23:22.968)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (23:47.52)

And that I think too, like it's really important, especially when, because I think about like people that have had a prolonged journey of trying to conceive, right? Like you go through the process of, you know, you spend how many years of your life trying not to get pregnant and then you spend how many years? I saw a thing, it was an interview, or it was a quote from an interview and someone was interviewing at like a OBGYN and they were saying like, I spend the first 10 years that I know a patient trying to keep them from getting pregnant. And then sometimes I spend the next 15 trying to help them get pregnant. And it's just like this weird thing, right? And so whether or not you conceive a child through sex or you conceive them through various technologies or surrogacy or whatever, I feel like that piece, that pursuit or that goal in mind is this thing that can totally strip away so much of the intimacy and the...

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (24:19.19)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (24:44.868)

the connection that you can have, because when you have people that are trying to, trying for years and years to have babies, or they go through the IVF process, or the IUI process, and all of that stuff, is you've got people who are like, this is a thing that we used to do together, that maybe it did fill all those needs, and we were in a good space, but now it's just become this mechanical thing, because it's the means.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (25:05.942)

Yeah, it's a job.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (25:15.036)

 It's the, yeah, this is now the job, and it feels very, it feels very Handmaid’s Tale in a non-handmaid's-tale kind of way. But the idea is like, how do you go from where you were to then where you are, and then for whatever, however it happens, you have a child. Now, how do you circle back? Because there might be this prolonged period where it's like, okay, it's Tuesday, I took this test and all this stuff and like, yay, you know what I mean? How do you come back to that piece that you had in the beginning?

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (25:17.454)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (25:37.709)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (25:42.002)

So I take a little bit of, and this may be a radical approach, which I start with even like what it means to be a mother. Like I don't think we have enough conversations about that. So we did this episode a couple, I think last season on our podcast where we talked about the difference between the experience of wanting to be pregnant, wanting to have a family and wanting to be a mother and how that shifts, right? Your motivations, your actions, and what the function of finding a partner, feeling erotic, experiencing pleasure, how it looks different. But I think something comes into, what does that mean for you first? Because that to me is part of that drive of, when we're trying and it becomes this just job, is there's something really significant, right? And if that isn't really sort of explored and understood, then everything gets lost behind that. Everything gets lost, like we're going, but we don't really know how we got here or what's making us go here and what's driving. 

And we're not then being able to really fully consider the other pieces of ourselves and keeping that balanced. And so knowing like, what does it mean to become a mother, right? Like what is it that this is going to do? Like, and being able to explore like, oh, you know, am I doing this because I've always wanted to raise a child? Am I doing this because I think this is what makes a complete family? I'm doing this because I feel the pressure that everybody else is having kids and now I need to have kids because there's this timeline or I'm doing this because it needs to be my biological child versus me being having the ability to adopt. Whatever it may be is like first understanding that and then what is the part that is our relationship, right? So if we're looking at like from a married context or a partnered context is.

How does that play into our relationship as a whole? Right, do we see this as just one phase? And this makes the relationship too, or is it there's this part of this new place we're trying to get into, but there's also this relationship, and then how do we feed that, right? That always being able to keep that in balance. And so rather than it being very reactive or, again, that place of like, I say impulsivity, where we're just kind of on this hamster rail, the next thing, the next thing, next thing is at the beginning, we start to think about, okay, like, how do we want to keep this in balance? If we know what parenthood means to us, we know what motherhood means to us, right? And then figuring out, like, what does the relationship mean? What does our erotic life mean to us? And then being like, how do we check in? And so rather than it

Dr. Ashley Blackington (28:46.314)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (29:02.374)

And I think things just shift, right? If we're not paying attention, like a boat, if a boat's not anchored in, it just goes where the wind goes. And I think that is what happens so often in relationships is that we've just followed down this path and then before we knew it, that's all we were consumed with. And we never paused, we never set an anchor to be like, wait, how do we want this path to go? Like, where could we go?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:23.745)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (29:35.827)

What are the things that we absolutely need? What are the things that if we sacrifice, maybe we know we wanna put a lot of effort into recovering on the backend. And that helps you survive, I think, not only difficulties but also really staying somewhat grounded in the foundation of the relationship.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (29:59.708)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think too, like the point of recovery is important and whether or not it is a prolonged experience or it is a short one or it is unexpected or whatever it is, that the acknowledgement and the communication around the fact that there is a recovery that has to happen because it is, you know, it's like you have all these pieces and then you take this big giant wedge and it could be you know, the best thing ever and the thing that you wanted and you've all worked towards and stuff like that, but it's still a wedge and you have to acknowledge the wedge for what it is. And then there is a recovery. There's a resettling or reshuffling of where all of these parts and pieces go. But like, fundamentally, all of this comes back to communication.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (30:45.524)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (30:51.786)

It does. I think it's communication.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (30:59.178)

And I think it's awareness of, it's both an awareness of yourself and permission to evolve in yourself, right? Because we're not staying static and we do change and the things we want change and the things we need change over time. But I think initially is like awareness, like I really need to be aware of myself and being able to have some really, I mean, they're not always the most comfortable conversations but they are important conversations and then like permission to evolve, right? And I think that permission to evolve allows me to then do that communication, right? Where as things are changing that I can then come back, right? And rather than it being this really isolated process is being like, you know what? Maybe I didn't think I was going to be here. I didn't think I was going to feel this way and I'm starting to realize this is where I'm at, you know, and being able to then invite my partner, my spouse, into that space and being like, okay, have things changed for you? How is this for you? And I think ultimately, right? Because I come from the, I think I'm coming from what a lot of my clients are, is like they want to stay together, right? They're not, I don't have couples who come to see me that are looking to like, oh man, I just can't wait to like, I need you to help us, like, ugh.

Like it may end up being that way where they say, hey, you know, yeah, I think we're going to, but that's not the goal of couples therapy. Couples therapy is we want to stay together. And so I think from my perspective is like constantly thinking about how do we keep this link intact, you know, and part of that link is pleasure. Even if it's not erotic, it's pleasure with each other.

How do we have fun with each other? How do we stay connected to each other? How do we keep a bit of that like just magic alive? I think, I mean, just phenomenal therapist, but Esther Perel talks a lot about, she wrote a book called, "'Mating in Captivity'," and is like the long-term of being in a relationship and being able to survive these ebbs and flows of long-term partnership. And that is something we just don't dig into deep enough. And, you know, I mean, we could be going into a completely different space than just motherhood, but the impact of not really thinking about those ebbs and flows is that we get off course and then we lose that connection. And then, right, like, the responsibilities, the obligations of being a parent, a mother, completely blind us because you're just like in the thick of it. And we don't live in villages anymore where originally parents were supposed to have 30% of like the load and you shared the rest of the load, the rest of the 70% with family, family and friends where kids ran from house to house in their little, from their villages and like,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:01.784)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (34:21.35)

You really did. That's how we raise children. And now your village is a village of two. And oftentimes a village of two who also work. And so It is a mountain that parents are climbing nowadays and climbing oftentimes with very little...

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (34:51.39)

Like, I think about like a fog. Yeah, there you go. Visibility.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (34:52.6)

like visibility. Yeah, yeah. It's like Everest with no oxygen tank. But like everyone standing at base camp going, are you there yet? Why are you not there yet? You should be climbing faster. I climb faster. And it's like, you're down there with the village. And I'm up here, dragging all my worldly possessions, and my people with me. And I can't see where I'm going. And God, I hope I don't fall off a cliff. But like

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (34:59.083)

Absolutely.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (35:12.982)

Yeah. Right. And I don't have walkie talkies to talk to, to talk to my partner. Nope. That is the state right now that we are in.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:21.827)

No hand signals, no...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:27.252)

I, yeah. And I think too, like so often that there is this internalization that people do of like, and this is what happens, and this is again, another thing that I love to talk about is like, because we don't talk about things, like generally so many things that occur and changes that happen in parenthood, is that there's really this idea of like, you look around and you get everyone's Instagram page and you get everyone's like forward-facing.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (35:46.348)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (35:58.449)

And so the tendency is to internalize when it comes to wrong or a mismatch or needing to be needing to recalibrate is that you look around you're like, well, how come everyone else has it all figured out and like these people are fine. But like, are they fine? Like, why?

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (36:11.384)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (36:16.294)

Yeah, I, you know, I don't think anybody on Instagram is fine. Um, you know, oftentimes we go to Instagram when, when we need to, when we need to know, like, it's very rarely that we're going to Instagram or, or another platform to like, actually learn something. Right. I mean, it does happen, but, and I think maybe people are trying to do it more, but I think for a lot of times you go there when it's like, oh my God, I just need to like escape and this is why I'm going to go. You know, there's, there's so I, whenever I have clients who are becoming moms, I always give them two different books and they're very different because I'm like, I want you to have like a sober idea of like what motherhood both is, but can be. And one, one sort of like off cuff and it's saucy. It's by Ali Wong.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (37:08.394)

Okay. Yes.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (37:14.526)

Um, and it's dear girls and I love it because I think it's like a really honest blend of like who she is as a woman, but also like the ideas of what she, she wants for her daughters and like being able to keep that intact, like girls become mothers, right? And so what is it that we're modeling so that they become the women that, you know, for

that we hope for them to be. But then the other one is Untamed by Glennon Doyle. And I love it that she gives this, it is a beautiful account of her own journey of when she tried to completely immerse herself as like my identity is mother versus mother is one of my identities. That I have multiple identities that are important and that are valuable. And there's one chapter specifically when she's like talking to her daughter and she's putting her to sleep and she's like, I realized at that point that this can't be everything, right? And for a couple of different reasons, one that if we do our job well, that we want our kids to go off and succeed and start their lives and have their adventures and be their own people. But like that becomes really hard if that is all you are.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (38:42.82)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (38:43.074)

Because what that means is when they do that, you are no more. And I think you can see that in older generations of mothers who really struggle, where they're like, I put all of who I am into my kids. I lost my marriage. I don't know who I'm married to anymore. I don't know who my friends are anymore. I don't know who I am anymore.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (39:13.527)

I laid all of those identities to rest the moment I picked up this new one. And that is heartbreaking.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (39:19.598)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, for sure. And I think too that is the impossibility of that position is that we are sold and expected that position is the one that will fulfill us. However, that position benefits everybody but us. And then at the end of the day, if you wanna fight against that status of, or not status, if you wanna fight against that, through line of, you know, I wrote a blog about why do we ask little girls, I wrote a blog about why do we ask little girls what they want to be when they grow up, if they get to a certain point and then you start asking them like, when are you, you know, when are you going to settle down? When are you going to get married? And what are you, when are you going to start a family? However, at the same time, all those questions are being asked, they are, they are graduating.

They are figuring out what they want to do for a career. They are starting a career. They are going to graduate school. They're doing all of these things. And so why do we, why it's like talking out of both sides of your mouth, like you're saying to them, you be an individual and be independent and all of those things. And then on the other end, it's like, but you have to fulfill this predetermined path. And like, if you want to do all of those other things, that's great. However, don't screw this up because don't screw up motherhood, don't stop, don't whatever. And so that's when you get into that cross of like, you can do all the things and you can be all the things, you just have to do all the things. Like you have to pack that backpack and drag it up Everest because no one's gonna help you do that. But you also have to be happy about that.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (41:12.294)

Yeah, it's funny because I think about like that going back to that, what kind of mother do you want to be? And so I have a lunch that I do with some other entrepreneur mothers. And you know, one of the things I said I gave up was like, I gave up getting to school on time. Like that there was like this pressure around like, well, you have to do I was like, it doesn't work for my schedule. It doesn't work for our schedule. And really being like, you know what, when I when I came down to like, what kind of mother do I want to be is

I want a mother who really knows how to have moments of being in the present, and that if I am going to follow these dreams and ambitions of mine, then my life, our life has to look different. And that I, yeah, I reject it. I reject the like, do all the things. I would like to figure out the things I would like to do.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:09.344)

Yes.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (42:09.883)

And those are the things that I do. I do all of those things. I don't do all of every.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:17.196)

And that's that whole hustle culture piece that it's like, you want to do all these things here, let me give you a menu, you can have all of these things, but you have to work harder and you have to give up more of yourself in order to make that happen versus what you're doing, which is I looked at the menu and I don't want all of it because I only have this much energy and I choose to put it in these buckets. And.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (42:40.598)

Yeah, and that I define what it means to be a mother, right? Like for me, like what it means to be a mother is that my little ones know, some of them are not so little anymore, but to me they are. That they, yeah, but they know that like, I'm here, you can call me. I don't care what time of night it is, I don't care what it's for, like you can call me and I want you to call me and I want you to talk to me and I don't want you to be afraid.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (42:52.676)

I'm sorry. There'll always be little.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (43:09.282)

that you're gonna get in trouble for talking to me. And I want us to have fun. Sorry about that. I'm also a dog mom. Yeah, but like, I want us to have memories of laughter and I want to communicate to you that like, this relationship's the thing that matters. The time, the grades, the wearing the right outfit, the being, you know,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:14.172)

Oh, don't worry. You're a whole person here, dog and all (dog barking in the background).

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:29.932)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (43:37.902)

perfectly presented in public, like, that's, I guess, cool. That seems, it's stressful to me and it definitely seems stressful to my kids. But like the thing that like really matters is that you know and you feel loved. And so every decision that I make, I compare it to that. That's the standard. And to me, it's like, okay, if we're rushing off to school,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:45.889)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (43:55.48)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (44:08.226)

Does that do anything to make you know and feel loved? Does it do anything for me to let you know that I love you? No. So if we're having a slow morning and it's not happening, then okay, what would allow you to know and feel loved is saying, okay, we're tardy, cool. And if everybody else thinks that makes me a bad mother, well, I mean, you weren't there when my son needed to be held, that he was having a meltdown because for whatever reason, this one curl in his hair is not curling. And so that's it. 

He's not going and it's the end of the world. And what he needed at that moment was just to be like. What's going on? What's really going on? I don't care, just put it up and let's go because everybody else is going to judge me about being a good mother, but I want you and me to feel and have conversations about what it means to be a good mother, right? And that's you feeling love and me feeling like I am showing up for you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (44:52.996)

space.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:13.591)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:21.428)

Yeah, and that's permission for them to be present in their own self.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (45:27.178)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:28.828)

Because what happens is when you are saying, okay, we have to go to school, we have to do this, we have to do this, then it's just running right up over top of things. That, and that is again, like what feeds into all of this, right? It's like, if you are present within yourself and if you are aware of what you're feeling and why you're feeling that way, which you may or may not depending on how old you are, but why you were feeling that way and listening to that and being able to speak to that and being able to speak that out loud.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (45:37.26)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (45:58.572)

That's how you end up, not end up, but that's how you move through the world as your whole present self.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (46:07.67)

Yeah, and the great thing is, is like, and doing that, like. I don't I don't have to worry about anybody other anybody else's standards. I think that's something I really encourage both in my work, but even for my own life is like.

it really starts with the defining, like what does it mean for me? What does motherhood mean for me? Going back to that, if you started at the beginning, but also like what kind of mother, what do I want my identity as a mother to be? We have, and I go into all the other spaces where it's like, again, I have a spiritual identity. What does that look like? I have a financial identity. What does that look like? What are my values around that? Like personally, not because somebody else told me they need to be that, but because I have defined this for myself.

And the more that I have defined that, the more I have felt free and really enjoyed and found balance in my motherhood journey.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (47:03.701)

Mm-mm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (47:07.044)

I love that so very much. So when you have people, so you work with people individually and you work with couples, like how do you have people that typically start coming to see you individually and then move into that space? Or do you have people that see you as a couple? Or is there like a common trajectory that people follow? Cause I'm curious about A, who shows up first? And B, how quickly does that person go, hold on a second, we need to have a group chat about this. I thought this was one-on-one, but actually like we got to call in the other person.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (47:43.478)

Yeah. So I've actually done all different versions. I've started with like an individual and moved into couples. I've done like a sort of version of couples through individual where one person is just, they're just not at the process and ready. But like, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's coming up in the relationship. And I think you start where you start. So if there's one person who's like, Hey, like, you know, we keep on getting in these arguments and that person is not ready to come to therapy, then okay, like here, you can ask this question, you know? And like, so I've done that sort of work of like doing an absent couples version of like thinking about like, well, how do you have conversations? How can you ask open into questions? And that's like just kind of giving some skills and strategies. There are couples who start out coming straight in.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (48:34.904)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (48:40.838)

Um, so it really is, there's, I've, I've definitely touched all of those, um, and they have a different flavor to them and, and why we're moving into that space. I would say ultimately though, I think when you're doing couples work, what often happens is there, there's individual work that, that needs to be addressed or confronted. And so being able, I think it's where I find couples to be really effective. and go through the fastest is when you have couples work, if it's accessible to you, and then you go to individual. Because what you do is you take the work that happens in couples therapy, and then you can reprocess it in your own language with your own experiences, any of your stuff that comes up in that moment, and really integrate it in a way that when you're doing couples, you can do it, it's just a slower process. And so I think the question is a little bit about like, how quickly do you wanna be able to move into it? 

Because also couples is very dynamic, right? We're sharing space with each other and we both have our histories, our culture, our identity coming in with us, the things that we want. Couples often have slightly different motivations for why they come to therapy and what they see as the crux of their problem is often slightly different as well. So it's always like balancing that out. There's often a person who is more comfortable with expressing their feelings and one that is less comfortable or who's more shy or avoidant. And so it's an interesting thing that oftentimes like couples will come and be like, hey, this is all the things that are happening and they really want this person to engage, but then when this person starts engaging, they're actually like, they have all of these feelings and nuances. And like, sometimes the person who's used to engaging is like, wait, what, what? There's, I, there are things that I have done? And it's like, you know, both people participate in the relationship. And so, and they think it's just a matter of like, they're just not hearing me versus like, oh, there are things that I am not aware of.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (50:52.409)

Right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (50:59.773)

damn.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (51:03.314)

And so it's so fun, it's so dynamic. But I think the part that maybe sticks out to me the most is like that moment when a partner like feels seen. Like when they've been holding on to something and they can't put in the right words, and that's the thing that's causing conflict because they need to get this thing out, but they can't find the right word, so they're just like continuously putting it into the wrong space. And then in this process with the three of us, either whether it's I get to translate back, I'm like, is this what I'm hearing? Or that...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (51:24.204)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (51:51.386)

Once they start to slow things down right so they're not getting so dysregulated that there's this click. And it's like in this just happened in one of my sessions yesterday where it's like. I hear you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (52:05.023)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (52:06.463)

Ah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (52:10.518)

I can hear that. I could not hear what you were doing before. In fact, I didn't want to be near what you were doing before, but that right there, what you just shared, that I heard.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (52:14.956)

Right.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (52:25.932)

That's gonna be... That's gonna be amazing.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (52:26.423)

And it's, yeah.

It is. It is. It is. There's so much love, like, for all that we talk about divorces and, and infidelity, which does happen. I don't think that that, you know, that's a whole other topic we can get into one day. But there's so much love. And there are just as many, and I feel maybe passionate about this, is that there's just as many.

men who want their relationships as women. I think that sometimes, especially with social media and stuff, it's like this idea that like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (53:03.481)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (53:11.678)

I think the way I feel it sometimes is just like, men are just there and it's just like, you just show up and it's about finally getting them to wanna be in it. And I would say that is not my experience as a therapist is that they may not always know how to communicate. They may be afraid, they may be avoidant, but like men who are in relationships are not just in there because it's convenient that like the men I've worked with, like, they want their relationships. They want their partners, their spouses. And I think that is something that has been really, really enjoyable to see is like, yeah, like I think it's just something that like has kind of, when I look at social media sometimes, it feels very like sort of callous and cold of like,

Dr. Ashley Blackington (53:44.438)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (54:10.782)

and putting people into like caricatures rather than looking at things as a whole, as a system. But within my office is like, yeah, they're often hurting just as much. They're often longing to be loved and heard and seen just as much. And also lacking a lot of the tools, right? And I think that's...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (54:37.687)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (54:38.878)

everyone who's coming into that space is they're lacking tools, they're bringing in whatever crude tools that they learned growing up. Some work, some didn't, and they're having to go and say, oh yeah, that tool does not work for that. But it's really cool to watch them figure it out.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (54:56.28)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (55:00.116)

Yeah, I think in my in my house, so I have two boys and I have two girls. And I have said this for years that the world will be a better place when we have women who say what they want. They are assertive. They are direct. And that is a quality that is that is a quality that is respected, that is acknowledged, that is celebrated.

The world will be a better place when we have more emotionally intelligent men. Because the world as I see, so in so many different ways right now, is set up for men to peak in emotional maturity at around the age of eight to 10. And then it becomes posturing, and then it becomes.

And then it becomes suppressing and then it becomes all of those pieces and that it is not celebrated to have emotionally mature boys. But if you don't, if you have a boy that is not given the space, the tools, the opportunity, all of those pieces at that age, you cannot expect to have an emotionally mature person with the ability, the tools, the capacity.

the sort of the, not the script, but the pieces that they need in order, the scaffolding to be able to have those emotionally mature relationships as a grown man. Because no one is ever gonna come along in between late elementary school and when you're 30 years old and teach you. Because it's just not, it doesn't make money, it doesn't do this, it doesn't, you know, it's all of those pieces why it's really easy to avoid that trajectory. And so saying, like I say this to my, I have a nine year old, I say this all the time, like we're gonna talk about feelings. And sometimes he'll be like, I don't have any feelings. And I'm like, untrue, untrue. Everyone has feelings and your feelings matter. Her feelings matter, my feelings matter, everyone's feelings matter. Your feelings don't have a gender, feelings are feelings. And there is no expectation. There is actions and those have expectations but feelings don't have expectations because that's who you are at the core. And you being aware of your feelings and what you're okay with and what you're not okay with is going to create the space and the opportunity for you to have people in your life that respect those feelings, that take care of those feelings, that acknowledge those feelings so that you can grow into these relationships that are healthy, that you can have these conversations around. That's my soapbox.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (58:27.766)

I love what you're saying because, so my son actually goes to an alternative education school, which does holistic learning. And one of the things they do is they have like a peace path where you like, when you get in conflict, you work through these steps of like acknowledging and exploring what your feelings are, communicating them and then resolving. And, you know, to see how he engages as compared to other young boys that I've seen, and his friends engage, it is profound. Like when you have access to all of your emotions, you are able to express yourself in a way that gets your needs met, but also doesn't then create this pressure cooker, right? And I would say that is one of the most prominent things that I see with like, right, my male clients is that I bottle up my emotions and I bottle them up until I can't bottle them up anymore. 

And one of two things, either I totally just shut down, right? So like too much for me, so I'm just out. So I avoid, I run, I go the opposite direction because being in this place that's uncomfortable is hard. And it's really, really icky. And so because, and the only thing I can, other that I can touch would be anger. I can't touch sadness. I can't touch guilt. I can't touch fear. You know, like then I just, then all has to go, or it goes into this bottle until literally the pressure is so big that it explodes. And so being able to, access the full spectrum of emotions is helpful for everyone. That it's not just that I I'm communicating, but also that I get my needs met and I get them met in a way that can be heard. Right.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:00:43.905)

Yes.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:00:54.814)

And that allows me to stay connected and that does allow for vulnerability, but like, you know, I, I think that recognizing that vulnerability is one of the strongest things you can have in your toolbox. Because that is really how you move, right? Like it's that moment when I see you and you see me and we connect and then we decide to collaborate.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:01:03.094)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:01:21.774)

That I'm no longer, I'm not forcing you, I'm not dominating you, I'm not coercing you. But I can be like, man, what you want, what you need matters. And that comes when we can both be vulnerable in this space. And so I'm no longer, I just had this conversation with my partner, right? We had a little, a little, a little pickle about the AC, right, where the AC should be.

And, you know, and part of the pickle was like, you know, the way that at first he was saying he was like, I wanted the AC change. And I was like, but when it comes out in a certain tone, I automatically am ready to defend myself. And I understand that you want it changed and that you didn't feel heard. But like, because of the way it initially came out, I was like, well, I'm not doing it. I'm not touching it.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:02:05.976)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:02:19.506)

It's going to stay there. Right. And then when he came back later, it was like, fine. What can we change it to? And that wall came down and we both put the weapons down. And we're actually like, how do we do this together? And that's what I think happens when you access all of those emotions because then people can hear you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:02:21.234)

Forever.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:02:48.928)

Yeah, and that's what you want. You want to be heard, you want to be seen, you want to be able to show up as your whole authentic self, good, bad, ugly, you know, whatever it is. And it's about finding that connection with somebody who sees you for exactly who you are.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:02:57.547)

Yeah, yeah, and then you may not get, right? It may not be your way, but oftentimes, most people do not need it their way. They just need to know that you.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:03:22.34)

won’t hurt them.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:03:23.814)

Yeah, and that you know what their way is, right? That there is room for their perspective, their opinion, their understanding of the world to exist. Like, I don't need it my way, but I need to know that like it can exist in this space, even if we don't choose that way, because then it becomes an option, right?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:03:43.885)

Yeah, no.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:03:52.906)

And we can play with it, we can adapt and we can adjust, but when I don't feel hurt, it's like my way is not even a lot in this room. Right. Like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:03:56.728)

Right, the emotional bulldozer. Yeah. My gosh, I love the work that you're doing. I just think that it is like, it's so, it is so needed. And it is so, I think that like the big takeaway and it's not a surprise, but the thing that to remember is that everybody wants connection.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:03:59.55)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:04:22.612)

and everybody wants to be seen for their whole self. And everybody is a compilation of different buckets. And that when we can actually, it's like, here are all my buckets and this one's empty and I need to fill it and how am I going to do that? And then that person is, these are my buckets. And that's when you really see, it's like, I mean, I'm sure I'm dating myself, but like you remember Pog? like when I was in elementary school, the little like the little the little discs. And it's like.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:04:54.422)

Pog? Yes! I found my box of them. It was ridiculous.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:05:01.976)

I still have mine. You're in really good company here. But it's this idea of like, do you remember having like, I remember having like the little book and you had like all of the ones and they are like trading them and you're like, oh, you have really cool ones. And then, you know, everyone's getting, oh, shiny, yeah, come on now. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want that. But that's what we're doing.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:05:11.788)

Yeah! I actually have their shiny. Shiny and thick, right? Versus the thin ones is like, oh, that's kind of papery.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:05:31.748)

We're trying, like, we're all walking around with our book of pogs and love that and trying to figure out like which ones we're gonna hold on to and which ones we're gonna trade and which ones we're gonna share and all of that stuff but like there it is what it is like you have what you have and so you just gotta find somebody that that's like thinks your pogs are cool because you think their pogs are cool run this metaphor

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:05:38.795)

Yeah, I mean, I know I love it, right? I mean, because that is, right? Like that is ultimately what we are doing, right? We are constantly figuring out like what works for me, what works for you, what works for us. And sometimes it doesn't work, right? You know, but.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:06:11.564)

Yeah. And that's important too. It doesn't have to work in order for it to work.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:06:16.542)

Yeah, yeah, I think and that being like, so much of this stuff is a great like it once you like give it permission. The. The toxicity of it right diminishes it once it's like oh things cannot work things cannot fit things can not be for me not be for you and any of these spaces that we've talked about today is like the moment we do that like.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:06:24.789)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:06:45.158)

All of that toxicity can like diminish because then it's like, well, what will work right now? I have access to Where should I go? What should I do? How do I want to do this?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:06:50.028)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:06:59.264)

I love it. I think like it's just that I applaud, I applaud you, like from the rooftops, but I also applaud that there are people who are saying, you know, we wanna do this differently. And so we are going to, because really that's the next generation, hopefully of how this works, is the people that say, we need to call somebody and we need to talk about this, or I need to talk about this or whatnot. So like, I honest to God, I hope your phone is ringing off the hook and your inbox is full because people are moving forward in those conversations, because those conversations, especially if those people are parents, eventually there is that the trickle down that will actually work in this scenario, not in the economy, but there is a trickle down that will actually work and it will lead to change hopefully over time.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:07:42.802)

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:07:58.296)

And the more that we can do that and the more people that bring that out into the light the quicker that that's gonna happen. And ultimately, the healthier people are gonna be in the long term.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:08:26.558)

Awesome. I'm so, yeah, I'm like, sorry about this. No, it is, I think, right? Like, in doing this work, the thing that I always say is, like, customize the life you crave, right? You can customize this life. That it doesn't, we have to get off conveyor belts. Like, I know, you know, I think about, like, you know, that phase of life in America where everybody's working at factories. And I think there was just this sort of like creating a factory lifestyle in every area of your life. Like this is a package versus we're different. We do. We have different cultures, different values, different beliefs, different opinions, different wants and needs. And you have to be able to start looking at like, how do I want to customize this?

Right? This one life, like I always say, like, I don't know about, you know, reincarnation. If it exists, I don't remember it. So, you know, the very least, you know, I can come from that standpoint of- I am aware of this one life. I am aware of this one experience. And so how do I make the absolute most of it? And if something isn't working, how do I start re-imagining what will? Relationships that thrive are customized. Careers that thrive are customized. Friendships that thrive are customized. That it's not just, this is who I was friends with when I was five, and so I'm going to be friends with them forever if it doesn't work. There's constant evolution and adapting and re-figuring, or reconfiguring is better. What will work?

And so my hope is, right, as new couples come into being, is like, rather than being reactive to what doesn't work, is starting to really be explorative around what will, and giving yourself permission to be like, you know what? What is it that I really need to fully step into me?

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:10:39.637)

Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:10:51.702)

Right, and just fully step into us.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:10:56.58)

I feel like you just wrote like an entire bio for so many people out there to be like, this is what I want. Like I wanna distill it all down to me and see me for who I am and the things that I want and need. All right, you gotta tell everyone where to find you because you're amazing. And I think that, you know, it is the part of the change that is gonna help.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:11:10.254)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:11:15.877)

Hehehe!

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:11:25.829)

so many people. So how do people connect with you?

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:11:29.974)

Yeah, so you can find me on igniteanew.com. And then I am on Instagram and LinkedIn and TikTok for while it's still available. Who knows what will be happening, but I'd say most active on LinkedIn and Instagram, or just coming straight to the website. Like I said, I do private workshops. I also do group ones and then host retreats. And you can also...

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:11:40.835)

Right?

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:11:59.182)

Check out therapy if that's something that you want. Love sharing books. So there's some fun ones there too.

Dr. Ashley Blackington (01:12:06.196)

I love it. All right, I will put everything on the show notes and thank you so much for joining me

Dr. Jasmonae Joyriel (01:12:12.226)

Thank you, thank you for having me.